Here are some of the transcripts from a Creation-Evolution debate forum I was involved in for a while. It was so one-sided that the evolulu demanded his name and quotes be removed or he’d take legal action. He probably had no ground for legal action, but it was not worth a hassle to make him look ridiculous publicly, so I honored his request. You can get a good idea what he was claiming from my responses:
I’m Teno Groppi, . Chris Long introduced me to this list. I am a King James Bible believing literal Genesis creationist, basing my beliefs on scripture and science (empirical science, not evolutionary theories).
I speak sarcastically often, so don’t anybody be offended, I’m just having fun, no harm intended.
I like to keep my arguments to the basic things. Evolutionists do not like this because that shows that their theory wouldn’t be accepted by Mother Goose or Grimm’s Fairy Tales. Evolutionists like to talk over everybody’s head so they appear to know something.
For example, if you believe in evolution, you eventually have to allow for “Spontaneous Generation” which has been proven by EMPIRICAL and TESTABLE SCIENCE to be a greater folly than Mohammar Khaddafi declaring war on the U.S.!
In plain language, to believe in evolution, that all life had a common ancestor, and that life formed from non-life, you MUST believe that YOU came from a ROCK! You gotta have ROCKS in your head to believe that! Must be STONED!
Not only that, but you must believe that ALL LIFE ultimately came from a ROCK. You must believe that NOTHING became something (all by itself!), and that something eventually became a rock, and then the rock eventually became alive (also all by itself!). That takes more faith than the Bible account could ever require.
Now, I can handle discussion of things like the fact that amino acids required for the production of viable proteins must be optically pure with the correct laevorotary chirality, when they instead always form in alternating laevorotary and dexterotary chiralities, and only a living cell can make them into racemates. But somebody will answer this with more $500 words, and practically nobody will know how impossible this proves evolution is on a cellular scale.
To conclude my initial post, I’ll say that the fairy tale of evolution (any theory of it) must violate several proven, empirical, scientific LAWS (like the LAW of Conservation of Angular Momentum, the Inverse Square LAW, the LAW of Conservation of Matter and Energy, the LAW of Entropy, etc. etc. et al, ad nauseam …). It cannot take place by NATURAL means. If it could happen, it must require SUPER-NATURAL means, That puts you right smack into the middle of Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning, God CREATED the heaven and the earth.” Evolutionists cannot get past the first verse of the Bible! Evolution is a bigger joke than a Three Stooges festival! It is NOT SCIENCE, it is a RELIGIOUS BELIEF requiring more FAITH than the Bible has ever needed in 4000 years.
We’ll all one day kneel before that Creator,
<< An opponent chided me to restrict my arguments to EVIDENCES or risk expulsion >>
Oh, you mean like you guys are doing?????
I’ve received about a half-dozen venomous responses to my “insulting tone” but NOT ONE WORD of refutation to ANY of the claims and evidences I set forth.
See, I kept them simple, on the “lower shelf” so anybody could grasp them. I stuck to basic scientific LAWS that make natural evolution impossible. Evolutionists must talk over everybody’s head to impress and confuse. If they deal with fundamental, empirical science, they LOSE.
My “horrific insults” were teasing barbs comparing evolution to “Mother Goose”. You called my great-grandpa an “APE”! If you can’t tell the difference between mild facetious teasing, and actual harsh malicious insults, you’ll have trouble in the real world.
Grow up!, … excuse me, Evolve up! By your admonition for me to stick to the EVIDENCES while you AVOID them TOTALLY, I see some of you are evolving, into hippos, HIPPO-CRITS!
Now for some evidences:
How did all the baby whales know to be born upside-down? Mammals are born head-first (except for “partial-birth” abortions where the baby humans are turned around on purpose so their brains can be sucked out!). Obviously, if whales were not breach-born, they’d die. How did evolution know ahead of time to do the whales backward? Just lucky? Or did it reverse the normal procedure for mammals after all the baby whales drowned in the first generation?
How did legs evolve to wings without first being 1/2 & 1/2, and not fully useful as either, rendering themselves even MORE vulnerable to predators, and less able to capture prey? Did they all go extinct in the interim?
Why would anything reproduce when that would just create more mouths to feed and more competition?
How would male sperm and female ovum know how to develop a compatibility to each other?
Why are the two oldest living things on Earth (bristlecone pine, Great Barrier Reef) within 100 years of the Bible date for Noah’s flood?
That’s enough for now.
Created by Christ,
A few quick answers to a guy who asked why the flood wasn’t in Egyptian records:
Why must that be? The nation you mentioned in particular was an enemy of God all through the Bible. Why would it be so surprising to you that they would omit mention of a spectacular event of God’s judgment on sin, when they became the worst violators?! Homosexuals refuse to admit that their lifestyle is fraught with danger and death, all the while they are dropping like flies and filled with diseases many times more, proportionally, than the general population. their expected lifespan is in the 40’s, even withOUT AIDS. But they continue to rebel against God’s condemnation of that lifestyle.
Also, who says that they didn’t record the flood but archeologists just haven’t found it yet? Records from 2500 B.C. are not at most libraries and county clerk’s offices, you know. Just in 1995 archeologists finally found records of King David. Many eschewed the Bible account because they could find no records. It only took archeology about 3000 years to finally catch up with what the Bible said all along! The Bible was right, detractors were wrong. If, however, the Egyptians in fact did not record the flood, I suggest that it was intentional avoidance of the righteousness of God.
As for the tree date, that was not dated by creationists. I remember reading that stuff in upper elementary about the oldest tree. If others have come up with different dates for the trees, it just shows the unreliability of the dating methods and poor science on either the old dates or the new ones (either way, you are asking me to trust somebody who made a big mistake). I think you know that it would be suicide to defend all the dating methods. Moon rocks were dated by eight different methods, and when none gave the desired date, one was chosen to fit the pre-ordained conclusion. An 1801 volcano eruption was Potassium-Argon dated in the millions of years. Different parts of the same wooly mammoth dated millions of years differently. Even if any dating methods have the accuracy of a blindfolded drunk with a derringer, they in themselves speak against the theory of evolution. Every one of them is measuring something as it decays, dissipates, corrodes, breaks down, degenerates, etc. when evolution says that things progress! Quite a contradiction!
A response to a Christian who complained about my style:
Jude 1:22-23 And of some have COMPASSION, making a difference: And others save with FEAR, PULLING them out of the FIRE; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
God uses all kinds to reach all kinds. In today’s society, more people need to be hit right between the eyes than ever before. People READ and REACT to my postings, as is now quite evident. Not usually so with soft speech. Most people need to first be woken-up before you can really reach them. The advent of TV has bombarded people with so much sensationalism that they are desensitized, and need to have something shocking to attract their attention. SOME people will be reached your way that would not respond to my style, so I’m not advocating that you must adopt my style, but neither should you condemn it. Read how Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul dealt with people. They were more harsh than I’ve been. I never called these atheists (your term) “Children of the DEVIL”, but Christ did! I never called them whited walls, dead men’s bones, serpents and vipers, Jesus did!
I got to say some things which may plant a seed. Usually I get to say a lot more than with this group, and the points I address force them to think about their eternal condition. You may later get to reap a harvest. God can use both of our styles to reach people.
<< The same guy from earlier complained again that I didn’t provide any evidence >>
Did you read my stuff with your eyes open?
I referred to: 1) Spontaneous Generation 2) protein chirality 3) Angular momentum 4) Inverse Square 5) Conservation 6) Entropy 7)Missing Links 8) Intermediate Links 9) Breach birth whales 10) leg to wing mutation 11) reproduction and competition 12) Oldest life, among other things.
To date, nobody has refuted ONE point. If evolution has any more credibility than a FORTUNE COOKIE, deal with the above! If they could be answered, I’m sure you’d forget the HORRIBLE remarks (Fairy Tales, Three Stooges, Hippo-Crits, and other such “obscene profanities”) and deal with the above.
I’ve been on plenty of debate forums on creation vs. evolution, including on the Internet, with college professors, their students, editorials, and personal correspondence. Never before have those on either side been so quickly and easily offended by such innocuous, lame remarks.
What usually results, is that others read and respond to, my postings, attracted by the unusual verbal demeanor, and we get some excellent, interesting, fun, and lively discussion going. I don’t know why you guys are so tender.
<< He said I had been rebuked by others on my own side >>
Assuming that these two are Christians, the rest of the message is directed toward them:
Psalm 119:165 “Great peace have they which love thy law and NOTHING shall offend thee.”
Now you know that I have not been obscene or profane. My remarks have been ,mild teasing. Even if they were harsh, they are directed at a doctrine that is SENDING PEOPLE TO HELL !! What Christian worth his weight in feathers could be upset at someone mocking a teaching that is a DAMNABLE HERESY which is LEADING adherents to the LAKE of FIRE !!
Which side are you on? People are going to HELL for all ETERNITY, and you are going to complain because I poke fun at the teaching that’s responsible?
Meet me at the Judgment Seat of Christ, and we’ll see who comes out better for this exchange! If you think that my comments about evolution are harsh, wait until you see what GOD has to say about it! Here’s a preview:
Rom 1:25-26 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
2 Pet 3:3-7 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
John 5:46-47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
This is more than a matter of life and death, it’s a matter of ETERNAL life and death!
In Christ the Creator,
<< Private letter from a friend on the same list >>
Teno, it looks like you will be booted off of the list. Congratulations!
You have probably set the all-time record. Apparently, they just can’t stand your strong views; especially James Moore. You are just too intelligent, and too sure of your self. I am left wondering why I haven’t managed to get kicked off of the list yet. I have written some strongly worded, gospel preaching posts, but they still put up with me.
If they do give you the boot, I am going to leave too. I have had enough. However, I do plan to go out in a blaze of glory. I will try a standard gospel message, along with a post listing some of my main problems with evolutionary theory, and in support of Divine Creation. I think it may be time for me to shake the dust off of my feet and move on.
That’s a record for me too!
I probably will send them a few more things, I hardly got to give any details to the points I did bring up. I know what their responses generally will be. I like to set the bear trap by only letting out a bit at a time, then they give the knee-jerk answer, then I make ’em wish they kept their mouths shut. I’ve run three college professors off the editorial page here, by doing that. They finally realized that when they give their liberal views, my rebuttal makes them look worse than if they never spoke up in the first place. They don’t want to go at it on equal terms. They lose every time – I have the truth!
The evolutionists can’t stand someone who keeps referring back to the empirical, fundamental principles of science. They have to defend spontaneous generation on a large and cellular scale, and both can be shown to be foolhardy. I try to keep the conversation so anybody can understand it, and they don’t like that. They say they only have uncovered 3% or so, of the fossil record and that’s why they can’t find any transition fossils. I’ll throw that right back at them and say that if you only have 3% in 140 years of looking on purpose for them, why should I believe ANYTHING you conclude about them? Oh, someone needs to do the technical science and refute them on that level (and I can get into that deeper myself, if necessary), but the basic stuff reaches everybody.
They’ll try to impress somebody with million-dollar words about Miller’s failed attempts to produce a viable protein. We need to be able to answer then technically, as to the chirality problem, the problem of dissolving in water, the reverse chirality of the aminos, his trapping of the amino acids to prevent them from being destroyed by the other chemicals the experiment created, and so on. But, it’s much more impact to many more people to say, “So what if Miller ever does produce a viable protein, or a full animal for that matter. Evolution says that all happened by random chance. Here we have intelligent scientists, manipulating, experimenting, controlling, and CREATING “life” in a laboratory. that brings us right to GEN 1:1! It didn’t EVOLVE, it was CREATED!”